How to Talk to Religious Conservatives About LGBT Rights
Discussing LGBT rights in conservative faith communities can be especially challenging for both newbies and those of us who just want everyone to just hurry up and embark on a civil rights program. It is felt that those who reject LGBT rights on religious grounds are using dogma like a fig leaf to hide their bigotry, and in many cases this is probably true. But there remain a large number of people who grew up in religious traditions who nevertheless have changed their views on the place of LGBT people in the wider community – and even in the narrower world of their church community.
No one knows this better than the Reverend James Martin, a Jesuit priest and author of the new best-selling book Building a Bridge: How the Catholic Church and the LGBTQ Community Can Enter into Relationships of Respect, Compassion and Sensitivity.
“Over the past few years, there have been fundamental changes in attitudes towards LGBT people, at least in the Catholic Church. More and more people are familiar with LGBT people in their families, and people who were previously closed are offered to look at this issue in a new way, ”Martin said.
The steady progress and social normalization of gay and lesbian pop culture has likely also changed attitudes at the dinner table – even in religious communities. Still, if LGBT rights are an important and emotional issue for you, having a civil conversation with an intolerant friend or relative can be a problem. I spoke with Martin about the best approach to talking about LGBT rights with a religious and intolerant person.
Interview edited and condensed.
Lee Anderson: How would you suggest talking to a religious and intolerant person in their own language?
James Martin: I would suggest not talking to them, but actually listening to them. Often these conversations sound like: “How do we talk to these people or how do we talk to these people?” We are supposed to speak (which is very American) rather than listening to them. So the first thing to do is hear where they are coming from and meet them where they are – which is exactly what Jesus did.
Don’t win an argument, tell a story
JM: I think stories are much more compelling than arguments. One of the stories I love to tell people is about a gay friend of mine named Mark. Mark was in a religious order and left. As a result, he married his partner, with whom he has been together for 20 years. One of the things he did was take care of his partner during a long, serious illness. I often tell people, “Isn’t this a form of love?” I’m just asking this question. So I think it’s not so much about argumentation, but more about stories, more about what Pope Francis calls “the culture of meeting ”.
Quite frankly, this is how Jesus answered questions. When someone asked Jesus, “What is God’s government?” He did not define them. He said, “The farmer went out to sow.” Or “the woman lost her coin” or “the man had two sons.” He teaches people to tell stories, because definitions and arguments just close our minds, and stories open them.
So, in fact, an invitation for people with a limited outlook is to meet an LGBT person in all his complexity and listen to his story. And it is also a respectful attitude towards people.
LA: So what to say to someone who says, “Well, being gay is a sin?” At least it sounds condescending: “I know your eternal life better than you.”
JM: In the Catholic Church, being LGBT is not a sin. This is what the catechism teaches. And to be honest, I think “hate the sin, love the sinner” is really off-putting because I have met several people who say this who really love the sinner.
If you are LGBT, say, “I am not sinful simply because I am LGBT. I would like to share with you my growing up experience and how I have always felt like gay, lesbian, or a person in the wrong body. ” Just share it with the person.
If the person is limited or not listening, there is little you can do. But I tend to believe that people are open to experience. Thus, the narrow-minded person who suddenly discovers that his son is gay or her daughter is lesbian is really forced to look at it differently, because he is faced with a person, not a theory, and with experience instead of a category. …
L.A .: Does the Church believe that sin actually operates under the influence of homosexual impulses?
JM: According to church teaching, any sex outside of marriage is sinful. This also applies to heterosexuals who live together before marriage, which no one seems to pay attention to. Nobody says, “I hate sin, but I love you as a sinner.” Very few people say this [to people in this situation]. LGBT people are people who are placed under a microscope, and I believe that this is discrimination.
LA: The sea of change you talked about extends to the wider Christian community, where prominent evangelical leaders like Jen Hatmaker have expressed their support for LGBT people and same-sex marriage . This social shift in attitudes always seems to result in a rejection of Scripture on Facebook. What would you say to someone who wants to argue with you based on Bible verses about homosexuality?
DM: You need to understand Scripture in its historical context. If you look at the Old Testament, there are many Scriptures that say it’s okay to have slaves, but no one buys it anymore. Or remember Dr. Laura ‘s famous letter about Leviticus? Even in the New Testament, they understood homosexuality differently than we do today. You must understand this in context. It seems that homosexuality laws are the only ones people take out of context these days.
And by the way, Jesus said zero about homosexuality.
LA: What would you say to someone who is really tough, like wanting to end a relationship with you because you are gay?
JM: Then you have to break off relations with everyone who sins, which means that you will break off relations with everyone you know. So have some fun in your one person church.